Supeku Sholicast Episode ============================ **Hydro:** Welcome back to Sholicast everybody. I’m Hydro. I'm with DrX, and for this episode we are joined by Supeku. Welcome, Supeku. **DrX:** Welcome. **Supeku:** Thanks for having me. **Hydro:** Tell us a bit about yourself, so the audience can find out what kind of work you do and what you work on. **Supeku:** It's hard to say specifically. I don't really have a niche or anything like that at the moment, I don’t think. I haven't really been drawing for a very long time, so I'm only really active on Baraag and most of the stuff that I post there is, they’re really kind of for the most part, studies that I drew for myself at this point. Because I feel like I'm still at a point where I'm really figuring out the actual basics of drawing and digital painting, etc. And so with each illustration, I just try to do stuff that I haven't really tried before. That takes a while. It's a bit of a... This is a bit of a stressful process, but at the moment, that's basically what it is. I've got some sort of large project ideas that I'd like to work on in the future, but it feels like a bit of a waste of time to... You know, be starting working on like really large projects, like a digital novel, when I don't feel comfortable about drawing in the first place, you know? **DrX:** So when did you start drawing or when did you start getting serious about it? **Supeku:** To be honest, I didn't draw at all up until last year, up until April last year. I was always kind of interested in drawing, but it always seemed something like impossible to achieve or get good at. Yeah, I just never even considered or seriously considered taking it up until April last year. I did pester my parents to let me go on like a painting extracurriculum when I was a teenager. But I did that for a couple months and I was awful at it. So I dropped it after that and then I didn't pick it up for like another decade after. I only picked it up last year because I'm like, I've just been studying and learning different kinds of stuff since COVID started and like, that kind of gave me the confidence to, you know, start drawing properly as well. **DrX:** That's awesome. And like, I'm looking through your gallery right now, and I do think that you’ve got some good stuff. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Thanks! **DrX:** Lots of great loli pics. I like it. **Supeku:** Yeah, it's fun. **DrX:** You're one of the guests that don’t have that story of, they were like two years old and already starting drawing and stuff like that. So that's, it's a really interesting. **Supeku:** I’m entering my boomer stage. So I feel like I need to catch up in a way, I guess. To get my work to a certain level of quality. I didn't have those sort of foundational experiences as a child. I feel it's a very, very different experience learning to draw as an adult compared to picking up drawing gradually when you’re a child. Just because I feel like I don’t really know how to play with it, you know? Like I can rationally figure out, you know, how rendering works or how to go through the digital painting process or you know, how to render the form, etc. That's all stuff you can learn, but we can’t truly learn how to play with a drawing, you know, how to fool around with it. Kind of enjoy it in a childish, playful way. But it's something that I'm trying to figure out now because I feel like there’s something that makes my illustrations lack something that I'm not sure what. **DrX:** Well the good thing is, since you've learned the fundamentals or it seems like you've started having a grasp on it at least, that gives you more room to experiment and not be too frustrated with the results, I would think **Supeku:** For sure. \*laugh\* The frustration seems to like never go. I don’t know if it’s something that ever properly passes. But yeah I do find the drawing process really stressful. I was just thinking like quite recently, is this something that I’m really... Something that I'm really enjoying, I guess? But I am enjoying it. Like I enjoy... I enjoy creating something, but the actual process can be sort of - it makes me want to pull my hair out half the time, you know? How do you guys find it? **Hydro:** DrX and I - well, DrX is multifaceted. He started off with programing mainly. But then as we kept working together on the IA series, especially IA2, he then went into learning about 3D rendering and like animation using Koikatsu. And then modeling \*laugh\* and he writes. And for me, I mainly focused on writing. However, I can totally relate with you when it comes to the music creation experience because I've wanted to be working on music and creating my own music since I was probably like 15 or 16. Ever since I heard Daft Punk's discovery album. And that was kind of my starting point. It’s kind of amazing. Because I know some people, when they get into music, just like what happens with drawing with some people, they just start having fun with it and experimenting when they're a kid. And for me, it wasn't that. I \*hated\* learning the piano when I was younger, hated it, hated it, and I just never got into it. But then once this album came along with Daft Punk, l all of a sudden had just this moment where I'm like, man, I want to make music just like them. And since that time, it's been a real struggle with like, I'll have an idea for a song or I'll think of a song. But then the actual process of making it is incredibly - it can really be tough and can really be complicated. And very slow. And it's tricky. It’s probably the same with artwork for you, too Do you ever have moments where you'll see some really great art, right? You'll see some really great cunny or something and you'll be like, man, I really want to draw that. But you only are looking at it from the context of the finished piece, right? So it's the same thing with music. You're listening to the final product after who knows how many hours or days it was worked on and processed and gone through audio effects and all the different recordings. So you don't know where it started off bare bones, you don't know where it began from. And sometimes it can be a mystery to figure out how to navigate that whole process. **Supeku:** Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. It's interesting to hear sort of how experiences and approaches to art can be very similar, even in like radically different types of creation. I was just thinking recently - and this kind of ties in with the last thing. When I was a bit younger I used to do theater quite a bit. I used to do it a ton actually, up until a few years ago. And the thing with acting is that you need to have sort of absolute confidence, absolute control over your body to really have any chance of having a convincing performance, right? And this isn't like a huge secret or anything, if you ask anyone who's done acting in like any sort of way, they will most likely agree with this, right? You can actually be a not very skilled actor but as long as the confidence is there, you can make a fairly convincing performance. But I always sort of thought that this was something that's exclusive to the performative arts. But recently I've been thinking about my sort of drawing and sketching process. In a very similar way, you really can’t make sort of... interesting and engaging illustrations unless you're, in a strange way, sort of letting go. Sort of letting go of the rational part of your brain and just letting your body sketch and create these gestures and shapes and expressions kind of almost subconsciously. Yeah. I feel like that’s a really surprisingly large part of making excellent illustrations. And when you look at pieces that are made by really, really, really big artists, you often see that, you've got all this expression on top of technical skill. And I really don’t think that - gesture and expression etc - is something that you can really rationally sort of think out. You kind of just need to let go of your body. Let your arms make the marks. And then afterwards you detail. You rationally detail on top of that. **DrX:** Yeah, I've seen some discussions about that, about the confidence thing in art. I've seen it mentioned that sometimes if the artist is very insecure, it'll show up in the art. Like maybe the lines will be more wobbly and they won't look as clear or definite. **Supeku:** For sure, yeah. Yeah, it’s a weird one, you basically just have to not overthink things. Which is strange because drawing feels like... I didn’t realize this when I was learning to draw but it's a very sort of rational, almost intellectual process. Like there's so much... there’s an incredible amount of studying and understanding involved in creating a three dimensional form. And then playground with stuff like light, form, shadow, whatever, anything. It’s a great deal of knowledge required to create a really complex piece. **DrX:** Yeah, perspective for instance, that itself is math based because we're trying to mimic real life, like photography or physics or how light moves or how our eyeballs see reality and stuff like that. **Supeku:** Yeah, yeah. **DrX:** So yeah, it's really amazing the artists who will learn that stuff because at some point you ideally want to be able to do it intuitively, even though it's a math based thing. **Supeku:** I think... One of the really big challenges in drawing is sort of being able take this intuitive part of your brain, kind of unconscious part of your brain, which, you know, really comes out when you're doing quick sketches and, you know, like loose marks, etc. And then combine that then with the conscious, rational part of the brain where you start adding detail like, you know, specific form, etc. And being able to maintain the sort of expressiveness of the early sketch, like the subconscious expressiveness of the early sketch as you keep working through, you know, and detailing your piece, I think is one of the big challenges. Or at least that's one of the big challenges for me in drawing. **DrX:** Interesting. What do you think is the next stage for you? Is there anything specific that you really want to learn for making your art? **Supeku:** Although I'd like to sort of get better at rendering form in general, I've been looking at a lot of the rendering work by Diathorn. That man’s a genius. I’m trying to figure out what he does. Basically, the way that I learn is, I'll take an artist that I really like and I'll try to essentially imitate it. Imitate their work for a couple of weeks and even see if I can sort of learn anything from it. And yeah, obviously you can learn. You can always learn something from people who actually know what they're doing. But I guess stuff that I’d really like to learn... This kind of playfulness, I’d like to learn how to sort of mess around with my art more because I've still got this massive mindset where I’m... The way I approach a piece is, I mean, you do need to have planning, but I'd like to I guess maybe let go, do more thumbnailing and loose sketching and just find a way to get more gesture out of my drawings, I guess. But it’s not really something that you can really rationally learn. As I say, it's something that’s kind of a feeling, a mindset, more than something that you learn. So something that I’ve been struggling with. But yeah, it's just something that I've been thinking about the last couple of weeks or so. **DrX:** That is interesting. I think what would be great as we get more artists on the podcast, if they're struggling with something, is that in the comments that there's other artists who want to share some kind of insight or advice or learnings with the guest or even other people who might be looking in the comments. That would be actually really cool. **Supeku:** That would be super welcome. **DrX:** Yeah, that would be awesome. Like helping each other out and everything because everyone's on their art journey on Baraag and other places. **Supeku:** For sure. **DrX:** Have you seen the tutorials made by Diathorn? I could have sworn I saw it on some website. **Supeku:** I don't think so. No, I don't think I've seen any tutorials by him. I’ll have to have a look. **DrX:** I’ll have to send that to you so you can have a look at that. **Supeku:** Nice, thanks. **DrX:** I was surprised because I was like, I recognize that name. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Haha, yeah. **DrX:** Yeah. Yeah, that might help you out. **Supeku:** Yeah, for sure. Thanks. Yeah, people on Baraag, it's interesting to see like, how nice of a community \*laugh\* Baraag actually is compared to most pages on the internet. Despite the fact that it's not huge, but it is what, 40-50,000 regularly users isn’t it? **Hydro:** I'm pretty sure it's up around that number. It's probably more than that now. But since, you know, Koi had closed off registrations, I think since last year, that's obviously limited the number of people who’ve gotten on. But yeah, I mean, there's easily, you know, 50 to 60000 people on there. And many of them, if not the majority of them now, are usually creators in some capacity. They're either artists or writers or anything like that, because that's primarily what the broad community is. **DrX:** Here's an interesting part of it. I think there's a lot of reasons why the Baraag community is so nice, but I think one of them is because, like if you're a loli artist, you make a lot of loli art, and I'm sure you probably make art of other stuff too. But as far as Baraag goes, it's a lot of loli art and like, there's not a whole lot of loli tutorials out there, \*laugh\* you know what I mean? So it's kind of like we have to rely on ourselves and on each other. Because it's not that easy to like, go on Google and look up “drawing loli tutorial” or something. \*laugh\* Especially for the NSFW stuff like ooh boy that’s... **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **Hydro:** Yeah, it's like non-existent. **DrX:** I think I found like maybe one of them that was NSFW for drawing loli not even super NSFW, but kind of, but it was in Japanese. **Supeku:** Yeah, of course it was. \*laugh\* **DrX:** \*laugh\* Yep. **Supeku:** Yeah. That is a good point. I guess it's also sort of an acceptance of sexuality thing as well, you know, because I think for a lot of people, there’s a lot of shame and guilt associated with, you know, liking the lolisho stuff. **DrX:** Yeah, absolutely. **Supeku:** And in general, I think people who accept their sexuality just seem to be happier and nicer, you know. **DrX:** I absolutely agree, yeah. **Supeku:** You can kind of see this in the furry community as well. The furry community is quite nice. I’m not that knowledgeable about the furry community. Like as knowledgeable about it as the lolisho community. But it also seems like a really, really nice one, which is also interesting again, because it is a quite sexual community as well. **DrX:** Yeah. Like when it comes to NSFW communities, a lot of the times they’re past the barrier of “sexuality in general is bad,” “don’t masturbate” \*laugh\* and stuff like that. **Supeku:** Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. **DrX:** Like \*laugh\* we've seen, you know, some people on the internet say don't masturbate because, I don't know, you're removing your “male essence” or something like that. But you know in porn communities, they're not saying that shit. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** They’ve gotten past that barrier. And as far as Baraag goes, because like, I mean, there's plenty of lolisho on Baraag. You're pretty much past the barrier of having a problem with something being depicted in fiction in general. Like if you accept loli, you're probably going to accept whatever else fetish. Could be bestiality or non-con or whatever, could be anything. Also I think especially for people who are into lolisho, we know what it's like to be judged and met with prejudice of some kind or hate or whatever. And so a lot of us thankfully understand that we didn't like that, so we shouldn't treat other people like that either. **Supeku:** For sure, yeah. **DrX:** Even if they have a fetish that we’re not into, you know what I mean? **Supeku:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find this whole subject kind of fascinating. Yeah, even despite the fact, you know, that the community has all this acceptance of sexuality, etc, it's still interesting to see how sort of nice non-toxic it is. Because it feels like you should run into bad eggs every so often, despite the fact that, you know, okay, you've had, these experiences, etc. But you really don't. It’s just really, really nice on a really mass scale. **DrX:** Definitely. Yeah. **Supeku:** Yeah. Yeah, I just find it really fascinating. And yeah, I do think it is something to do with self-acceptance. **DrX:** Yes, for sure. **Supeku:** Self-acceptance of your own sexuality. Such a huge influence. You know it’s a shame that people outside these porn communities don't often have the opportunity to sort of think about their sexuality in a more introspective way, I guess. **DrX:** Yeah. And I'm trying to think about how to help that issue. You know, doing this podcast.... I mean, I want to use the podcast to help people and help the community and, and be like more sex positive and stuff. So I've been trying to figure out how to help that. And I think just doing this podcast helps a lot because on this podcast everyone can talk about their kink or fetish or whatever it is... **Supeku:** Totally. **DrX:** Without, you know, fear of judgment. Like no one gets judged on this podcast, whatever you're into, you know what I mean? **Supeku:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. **DrX:** So I think it's a great thing because you don't see that a lot on other podcasts either. Even the ones that talk about sexuality or whatever. They might draw the line at lolisho or something. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Yeah, exactly. **DrX:** But here, it doesn't matter what you're into, as long as you're not hurting anyone, you can be into whatever you want. It’s okay. **Supeku:** Exactly. Yeah. It’s an excellent thing you’re doing. But yeah. Again, the issue is that this doesn't really have... You know unfortunately because of the subjects it covers, it doesn't really have the kind of mass appeal, like access to a mass audience. Like ultimately it's still gonna be people likely in the lolisho community. You know, shame and guilt around sexuality is a huge societal issue in general. No, I don't think it's something that's so very easily approached or very easily fixed. Unfortunately. **DrX:** I think that what we're doing and what Baraag is doing and what Aethy is doing really helps. Building that community around people who are okay with all kinds of fictional content. So that's why the the podcast hasn't been exclusively about lolisho. We talk to people who are into other stuff because they're.... **Supeku:** Yeah. **DrX:** We’re all brothers and sisters \[and siblings\], you could say, in this. Because it’s not just lolisho that gets banned off of patreon. \*laugh\* As we know, incest gets banned, and non-con and bestiality... **Hydro:** And goblins, too, apparently now. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** Like furry genitalia, like red rocketship, that’s been in patreon’s sights recently, yes. **Hydro:** Yeah, that's on the chopping block. **DrX:** Yeah, there's been some mixed signals. But overall, it's kind of dubious whether you can do it. And you know like back in - not to harp on this too much. But you know, back in the day, I remember there were some people who were like kind of cheerleading for loli and shota and, you know, incest, whatever, getting banned off of Patreon. And I thought back then, what are you going to do when they ban your fetish? You know what I mean? \*laugh\* Which did end up happening. A lot of the time, the same people who wanted that stuff banned ended up having their stuff banned. So what it really comes down to is we shouldn't try to put other people down in order for us to gain some kind of advantage. You know, we shouldn't say stuff like, like in this example, “Fuck those lolisho people because...” “At least I’m not doing lolisho!” “I know I’m doing furry cocks and stuff, but at least it’s not lolisho!” \*laugh\* **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **Hydro:** Or “I'm doing hypnosis” or coercion and... It's kind of a strange moral grandstanding over other fetishes and stuff. **DrX:** We need to move past the era or mindset of putting other people down so that we can put ourselves up. We need to stop that because what we need to do is raise everyone up, help everyone, not just ourselves. **Supeku:** Yeah the issue I guess is that lolisho is just, I feel like it's extra fringe, in modern society it's an even more fringe community of the sexual ones due to the subject matter. **DrX:** Yeah. **Hydro:** The funny thing about that, though, is when you look at the, for example, vtubers like Gawr Gura or that loli music video that like blew up on you on YouTube and stuff... It tells you that even if there there is a divide or a little bit of a rift between the safe work and not safe for work the popularity of loli and shota is undeniably strong. It's definitely popular. \*laugh\* You know, DrX and I were talking about this the other day. That we have a funny feeling that there probably are a ton of people that just won't say that they do like the NSFW side of loli-shota. It's just right now it's not at a point where I think they're willing to to kind of step over to the other side so to speak, and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do want to see Anya Forger’s pussy, I do want to see. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** \*laugh\* Relatable. **Supeku:** Very relatable. Yeah you're right on the mark there. Yeah, I think it's a significant part of the population that are actually into it. But I think it's not even sort of being open about it. You used to have that sort of thing with like gay people, you know, like in the 20th century as well, right? Like people would refuse to accept their sexuality. And, you know, I mean, it just ends up meaning they’ve got a lot of issues of mental health. They're unhappy in general of course. I think there's a lot of people who are probably sort of self-consciously into all this lolisho stuff that actually don't realize it. Again, because of all the moralizing and the shaming that happens around it in society, you know? **DrX:** Yes. Like where they can't even accept the possibility of it. **Supeku:** Exactly. **DrX:** So they won't let themselves explore that. Or maybe they see a pic of a loli and they feel something, but they just deny it. You know what I mean? Because of that stigma. And, you know, we're trying to help with that stigma with the podcast and, you know, all that stuff. And even though it's mostly targeted towards people already in the community, I think it still does help. And who knows? You know, there might be someone who's kind of on the fence about it and they listen to podcast and they realize that we have all these people on the podcast and we're not talking about sacrificing people at the altar or something evil like that. \*laugh\* And like, we're just regular people. **Supeku:** You know, working through self-acceptance in terms of your sexuality... And this isn’t just for lolisho stuff, but it requires you know, a ton of work and introspection. Again, our society is so anti sex anything. Sex is just so incredibly repressed as a sexuality from a super young age. **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** You know, you see this in TV as well. It’s like, going extreme violence is absolutely fine. **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** But like, God forbid, you see pp going into vajayjay. You know, that's like the end of the world. **DrX:** Yeah. **Hydro:** Yeah. I mean, even when you look at the old Disney movies, they're rated G, they're supposed to be for basically toddlers. \*laugh\* And yet some of those Disney movies have a lot of violence in them. **DrX:** Remember Lion King? **Hydro:** Oh yeah. **DrX:** Yeah, spoilers for like a 100 year old movie, by the way. There's a scene like at the very end where Scar is thrown off a cliff or whatever. Then he lands in a pit of hungry and pissed off hyenas. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** And basically the scene gives off the impression that he gets eaten alive by them. \*laugh\* That’s kind of fucking dark for... you know what I mean? **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** And yeah, I think you're onto something... I think you're, you're on to something for like... I mean, that was like a scene where the, I mean, he was a villain, but still. He was going to get eaten alive basically. But like you said, if there's a nipple on TV or in a movie, that's a big deal. For some reason. **Supeku:** Yeah, it's crazy. Like when you really sort of... When you get intuitive with this sort of stuff, and you sort of start thinking about, you know, the way that sexuality is depicted in media, the way that people discuss sexuality, you know, outside, on the internet, etc. You just really start noticing how careful people with their words... **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** ...how insecure people are, you know, broaching certain topics. It’s just, there’s no real reason for anyone to be that way, right? Because sex is like actually one of the most normal things possible, right? It’s like a very natural and normal thing. We’re literally all created through sex. And then the fact that our society represses this, you know, basically the basis of our existence to the point where, you know, like telling your friends you like feet or something... **DrX:** \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Is like... **DrX:** A big deal. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** A really, really big deal is just... I just find it really, really strange. **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** You know, people talk about sexual revolution, you know, the seventies and eighties. But I feel like sexuality has only gotten more repressed as time has gone on. The Internet's been kind of a breaking point in a way, because you're able to have communities like these, you know, where we're able to discuss sexual things, pornography, etc. But also still on a mass scale, the average person is just, yeah, still has a ton of guilt associated with anything sex related. **DrX:** It’s because they’re raised that way. **Supeku:** Yeah. **DrX:** I guess it's important, for the people who are sex positive to try to break that cycle. I think that's really important. **Supeku:** For sure, yeah. Talk about it with friends, etc. **DrX:** Yes, like, don't be afraid to be a nice person. Is what I want to say. Don't be afraid to be accepting. Don't be afraid to be tolerant. Don't be afraid to not be prejudiced. Because some people, they might treat another person with intolerance or might judge them because they're afraid that if they don't do it, they'll be met with stigma themselves. And we need to realize that that just increases stigma in society, which eventually goes back to you, of course, because you're part of society. So you should just ry to improve society for everyone. And yeah, you're right. Accepting yourself, your sexual feelings and stuff - that's super important for your mental health. Like, it doesn't even have to be about loli. So like you said, it could be.... It's anything like, for example, if you're gay or bisexual, if you have these feelings, “oh that makes me bad” or evil or whatever, it's not good for your mental health. So it's really important to accept ourselves. **Supeku:** Yeah. **DrX:** Accept our sexual feelings. Almost everyone has sexual feelings, and none of us choose what they are. So it's a very important thing for us to accept it. **Supeku:** Yeah. There's no escaping your sexuality. It is what it is. **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** Yeah. It's important to sort of think about it introspectively, even the people who do accept it. I think it's worthwhile to think about the way you perceive and think about porn specifically, actually. Because I feel like a lot of people, even who are sort of sex positive, still tend to have sort of like I guess negativity in general towards pornography, smut. Like for the general public, porn is perceived as something that’s very... I don't know, low brow, crass, etc. It's actually all the same kind of art form as absolutely any other, right? Because there's nothing that makes pornography sort of wrong, you know? **DrX:** Yeah. And I mean, there's plenty of horror films out there, people getting cut up and, you know, everything like that. **Supeku:** Exactly. Exactly, it’s a very good point. Like violence porn is almost normal, isn’t it? **DrX:** I like how you call it violence porn. And I think that's because, I mean, in the podcast in another episode, we're like talking about how it doesn't really matter whether you enjoy something sexually or not. You know what I mean? If you enjoy something sexually, it doesn't mean it's worse to enjoy it that way. **Supeku:** Exactly, yeah. For sexual media in general, it’s just, it's media same as anything else. **DrX:** Yeah. **Supeku:** This is something that I've only sort of recently started thinking about myself. Because I feel like I've always thought, you have all forms of art here and that goes in this box. So that's safe for work painting, theater, film, etc. That goes in this box. And then you have like smut and porn, fictional or nonfictional, and that goes in this box. But like, they're all separate things. But there's nothing particular or different about pornography other than the fact that it includes sex. But it’s all the same ultimately, it’s all the same art. **DrX:** I think there's a lot of people who think about it in the way we do. Like you and I and Hydro. But it's just that as of right now, maybe not a whole lot of them are sharing their opinion about it. In other words, what I'm saying is maybe a lot of people are closeted about it where they feel that porn is not a big deal, but they just haven't told anyone because they're afraid to, because of the stigma. They don't want to be thought of as the weirdo or something like that. So it is important for us to speak up if we have the courage to do so, about our feelings about that. **Supeku:** For sure. **DrX:** So we can kind of tear down that stigma against sex in society. I have the fortune of, for the most part, not feeling that bad about sex throughout my life. I've had people try to make me feel bad about sex, \*laugh\* that's for sure. **Hydro:** \*laugh\* Yeah, yeah, same, yep, yep. **DrX:** Like my parents or random people on the Internet, people in religion or whatever. But thankfully, that hasn't worked on me. It didn't. They were not convincing for me. And so that's part of why I guess it's almost like a duty for me, I guess - on a personal level, of course, Because I don't have that, you know, personal stigma against sex, that I speak on it. Because I have that privilege of not really feeling that bad about it. So I can use my voice to help other people who may not be at the same stage that I am at. **Supeku:** For sure. Speaking of which, just out of curiosity, what compels you to make erotic media and pornography in general, you think? Because I feel like people say, you know, like, well, it's just hot, you know? But I feel like that isn’t the whole picture. I’m just curious as to, what makes people do what they do? **DrX:** It's really interesting to explore like different facets of humanity. We’re making Insexual Awakening, right? So it has shota, loli, incest, a whole bunch of very good stuff. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** \*laugh\* Yeah. **DrX:** But because we're doing that, we're exploring a lot of things about humans or sexuality that isn't explored in a lot of other media because they're afraid to touch that subject or something. So I think it's very interesting in like - I mean, I'll mention one example, is that in our games we have incest, for example, and exploring that and portraying it in a way that is not like, you know, just uniformly negative, is very interesting. And it feels very freeing. Right? Because we're not like, weighed down by like, having to tell everyone or trying to try to signal to everyone, “oh, this is bad.” Hydro even has that story that one of the reasons why he originally created Insexual Awakening is that he had been playing this game that had incest in it, and the game pretty much tried to make the player feel bad for doing the incest. **Supeku:** Geez. **DrX:** And that really didn't resonate with Hydro. **Supeku:** Right. **Hydro:** Yeah. You basically get a bad end essentially if you pursue it and it's pretty stupid. And the other game that I played, it was a bit more basic, but it did have the incest in it. But the story actually restricted what kind of incest would take place and that wasn't really the central focus after it kind of seemed to imply that it was going to happen. And I was just kind of like, no, I want I want to create my own story. In terms of what you had asked about, like why do we create it? I think it's the same as what DrX has said. It's very freeing to explore something you don't usually see depicted very much or is more niche. I feel like it's almost like human nature to want to explore things that are taboo or explore things that maybe not everyone accepts or not everyone is into all the time. Or maybe that's just the way the creative people are. I feel like creative people especially are like that. They love going against the grain. But it's that going against the grain is often what brings about societal change. A lot of times. I mean when you think about it, how often have major shifts in like culture... I mean, what is culture? When you think about it? **DrX:** Made up. **Hydro:** Culture usually consists of - \*laughs in reaction to DrX\* - of creative stuff. You know, like when Edison or whoever, like, there's tons and tons of different inventions that have come up, right? Like the Franklin stove, for example. Benjamin Franklin, he was just like, “Man, I'm really fucking cold.” “This sucks being in Colonial times.” Well, you know what? I want to make something that will warm up my house. And then he started to be creative with it, and that totally shifted how people heat their homes. And that was a creative thing he was thinking of. But also there's like books and art and why do they call it Renaissance? Well because mostly it was all cultural stuff. It was music, it was art that totally shifted how everybody felt. **DrX:** Yeah and in the Renaissance they were exploring a lot of things that were considered taboo or things not to talk about in the Dark Ages or the Middle Ages, whatever you want to call it, right? And that's why the Renaissance was so pivotal, is that they were studying and learning and celebrating a whole bunch of stuff that was considered off limits previously. And as we talked about, some things are taboo when they really shouldn't be. Like, it shouldn't be taboo to say like, yeah, I like furry stuff or I like feet. **Supeku:** Yeah, exactly. **DrX:** \[Something that is\] Taboo isn't necessarily bad. It's not necessarily an immoral thing. And the other thing I want to mention about, like, why do we make the kind of art we do and the stories we make... Is that it helps people too. Obviously there's a sexual element, it helps them sexually \*laugh\*, which, you know, that's cool. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** But we have a community of people who enjoy our games and we try to be nice and tolerant with everyone. And they’ve told us that, the game has improved their lives because, well, in Insexual Awakening, it's a very good feeling game series. Where we try to make people feel good, not just sexually, but like just in general, like emotionally, with our games where they they play and they feel good. It's a nice environment and nice story where you feel relaxed. **Supeku:** They are very wholesome. I’ve only played the second one, but it is very wholesome. **DrX:** Yes, it is. It's very wholesome and it has improved mental health for some people because of that. So like, it helps people. That's one of the reasons why I keep doing it. And it matters a lot to a lot of us. It matters to me. And Hydro of course, so that's another reason why we do it. It helps people. I'm really glad you brought up this topic because like, porn is not just about like getting a boner \*laugh\* and jerking off and stuff like that. Another thing in porn is that you can portray different body types that don't get as much respect as they should in other places. Or \[you can portray\] different kinds of characters or people. I mean with shota and loli, a lot of people can be like... for example, the self-insert thing. If someone is of a smaller stature or lighter build, for example, they might see themselves a little bit in the shotas or lolis. Or maybe that's their more ideal body type like for themselves. **Supeku:** Yeah. **DrX:** Like they would enjoy having a smaller body or younger body. So they can self-insert in that way. And that matters because, I mean, you know, there's the whole thing about body dysmorphia and stuff. And with porn, you can have much more, I guess, overt examples of different sexualities and stuff. Like homosexual sexuality. I mean, there is the whole thing on TV, which it's probably still true, honestly. Where when gay relationships are portrayed, they're more chaste on TV, for example. Especially in the past where like, you know, I guess like a good example would be like, like in the same show, there would be like a straight couple, like under the covers in bed, like presumably having sex. But the gay couples would only get like a kiss on the cheek or something in the show. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Oh, that’s a good point. A very good point, yeah. **DrX:** Right. And but in porn, you have two burly guys going at it fucking each other or two lesbians scissoring and stuff like that. Right. So there's less limits. Yeah. And that's a great thing because a lot of people want representation and that can be found in porn. Yeah. It's a very interesting thing to talk about. I’d love to talk about it in a more dedicated episode, like about how porn can be used for good. It's not just about like a bunch of sweaty guys masturbating. I mean, that's fine. \*laugh\* But you know, it's more than that. It's more than the highly caricaturized view of what porn is, like some kind of dirty thing, you know what I mean? **Supeku:** Yeah, I think it’s... Yeah, just going off what you said, it’s interesting that sort of, yeah, porn is almost an expression of you know, the human forms, so sort of an appreciation of its beauty in that way. And then you start thinking about fetishes as well... You know, like body parts fetishes, they’re almost sort of... a means of expressing, you know, the beauty of like those specific details of the human form. **DrX:** Yeah, yeah. **Supeku:** Yeah, I guess it’s kind of interesting to think about. **DrX:** I mean, the example that came to mind was feet, \*laugh\* because of the feet fetish. But some people think that feet are disgusting. Another thing to mention, some people may think that \*their\* feet are disgusting, but maybe if they see some porn that is super into feet, maybe they'll feel a little less bad about it. **Supeku:** Yeah. **DrX:** Or maybe someone is like heavier and maybe they feel bad about it. But then they see porn and all these people celebrating like bigger women with, bigger bellies or whatever and feel less bad about it. So, there’s tons that can go into it that can help people, you know what I mean? **Supeku:** For sure. Yeah, because I think, yeah, the thing is, like fundamentally, porn is... When people create pornography, it's sort of a form of expressing what they find meaningful about it. And that even goes for really fringe or just like fetishes that people might think are disgusting. That’s still despite the fact that they might be unappealing \*laugh\* for the mass audience. There’s the fact that it’s still an expression of beauty for the person that is creating it. And I think it's interesting to think about pornography in that way, because that almost takes away that sort of low brow sort of lowness of pornography. When you think about that it’s an expression of beauty, even if it’s, I don’t know, scat or something. You know, ultimately the person who is making it sees something in there that other people do not. Yeah, just see something beautiful in it. I just think it's really fascinating from an academic and human perspective, you know. **DrX:** Definitely, yes. Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. It is very fascinating. I could talk about this for hours. Honestly. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* I’d be happy to, yeah. **DrX:** So there is a question we wanted to ask you, as we ask most of the guests, is how did you get into loli or shota into the first place. I would assume it's mostly loli. **Supeku:** Mostly loli. I'm sort of, I’m quite a, I don't know, I guess, perverse person in the first place. So I’m very open to all different kinds of sexual experiences. **Hydro:** I see you are a man of culture as well, good \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Yes \*laugh\* we are all men of culture here. **Hydro:** Yeah, yeah. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** Yeah, I don’t mind shota stuff. But yeah, it was primarily lolis. Yeah, that's the big thing for me. Same as everyone, it started off when I was quite young. Maybe sort of different from the people here, I didn't really start watching anime or anything like that up until I was in my twenties. And I feel like anime is a media format where you get like a particularly high concentration of lolisho characters. **Hydro:** Oh yeah, big time. **Supeku:** Yeah, I didn't have tons of exposure to them up until I got older and then I feel like... I was thinking about this because... Because it's something you ask everyone, I was thinking about it. I think the earliest sort of memory of it I have is, I was playing one of the early Pokemon games. It might’ve been... Leaf Green? Maybe. I'm not actually even that much of a Pokemon head. But when I was little, I'd play it because my brother had it. So yeah. So I think it was Leaf Green. It might’ve been one of the earlier games. And I just remember I'd really... like whenever the loli sort of trainers come out. And there weren’t a ton of them and it wasn't sexual or anything at this point, I don't think, but I just remember really liking it, just getting super hyped or whatever when I had to fight a loli trainer, but other than that... \*laugh\* After that, I think it was probably Shadman. It was probably Shadbase and that kind of opened the world of loli porn, etc to me, because I wasn't aware that it was a thing up until that point. When I was maybe 13, 14 and Shadbase was like opening up, I guess. **DrX:** So growing up, or at the time you knew you liked loli NSFW, what were your favorite loli characters? **Supeku:** Favorite loli character? Shit. I should have thought about this beforehand. \*laugh\* **Hydro:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** It seems like you like Jas from Stardew Valley. **Supeku:** I do at the moment like Jas. I'm not too sure why. **DrX:** She's very cute for one thing, that helps. \*laugh\* **Supeku:** \*laugh\* That does do it. That does do it. But what I like about Jas, the thing that I like about that character is that because her character design... Like all of the characters in Stardew Valley are sprites, right? And they're not sort of very high detail or anything like that. That leaves you a ton of creativity in, you know, for depicting a character sort of as you imagine it, instead of like exactly how they’re supposed to be, I guess. Because you when have very sort of realistic, precise, minute, you know, depictions of characters, that’s it. That’s the character. It becomes a lot more difficult to play around with what they actually look like. But with Jas from Stardew, because you know, she’s got features, but she's still like a pixilated mess. You get to play around with and sort of design her character in different ways. And so yeah if you look at my illustrations, you get to see like my real lows and highs there, I guess, in general. But I depict her very differently each time and yeah, it’s because it gives me the space to play around with character design. And different forms of stylization, etc. So maybe the fact that they aren't sort of very high fidelity characters is part of what, you know, attracts me to them. Because the same way I’ve had that attraction to Pokemon trainer sprites from the old games, right? Because that kind of leaves space for fantasy and interpretation. **DrX:** Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. **Supeku:** Other than that... Yeah, I kind of meme about it, but I’m not like super obsessed about Jas other than that. **DrX:** Have you played the mod with her? **Supeku:** I have yep, of course I have. \*laugh\* **Hydro:** \*laugh\* **Supeku:** I’m not much of a... Actually, this is part of the problem that I run into. Like I don’t really game all that much. Up until a few years ago I didn’t really watch anime or anything like that much at all. So I’m really falling behind in terms of like pop culture understanding, etc. And that also leaves me less space for appreciating loli and shota characters in media as well. **DrX:** Well, there's always time to get caught up. **Supeku:** Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I don’t think I really had any specific loli crush when I was growing up. **DrX:** Just more of a loli thing in general? **Supeku:** It’s a loli thing in general. Yeah. Maybe if I dug around in the ol’ noggin a little bit, I’d pick something up. I can’t really recall anything at the moment. But yeah, loli stuff in general is the big one because I just feel like a lot more attraction to those kind of characters then, I don't know, like adults? \*laugh\* Adult representations of characters. **DrX:** So you much more prefer lolis compared to adult women characters? **Supeku:** Yeah, yeah. God, I... \*laugh\* I remember I had this... I guess like again, I’ve been a very sort of perverse person since the point I became aware of my sexuality when I was a kid. Because I remember I went to school and, you know, this would have been when I was 11 or 12. So everyone is sort of just starting to figure out their sexuality and started to become attracted to things, etc. And I went to school and some kids were like talking about Pornhub. They’re like, “Whoa! Have you heard of ‘The Pornhub?!’ You can watch ladies! Wtih BOOBIES!” I was like, wow, that sounds pretty good. So I’ll check that out. And I got back home, and I turn on, The Pornhub. And I just clicked on one of the top videos, whatever, on the front page. I was just like, is this it? It’s just like big boobied woman? A vagina? Penis? I was like “this is shit.” Yeah. I was like, this does nothing for me. Yeah, most of my sexualization was like fantasizing about stuff rather than watching porn. It wasn’t until I discovered fictional pornography through, again, Shadman, that I became... I didn’t become a gooner. I’m not a gooner now either. But then I started enjoying pornography in general. **DrX:** Seems like you were destined to be a loli man, basically. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* Yeah, it’s made for me. **Hydro:** When I started finding more fictional porn and fictional NSFW, that really elevated my, like, appreciation of porn. I was just like, oh man, yeah. Now, this is what I really like. This is the real good stuff. **DrX:** So Hydro, did you find real life porn before the fictional porn? **Hydro:** Yes, I believe so, because I think for me it was the Playboy channel because I had a de-scrambler or whatever, which at the time - because, you know, internet was not really a thing. Like, I didn't even have internet back then, but I did have a de-scrambler. And I remember it was Channel 98 that was the Playboy channel, but it would only come in like in red. Like it would be this reddish black hue, almost like you were playing on one of those, what do you call it, the game boy... Oh shit, what is it called - that like crazy game boy thing. The virtual reality one they made back in the nineties. That's kind of what it looked like, but I remember that was good enough for me though. That was that was perfectly fine for me. **DrX:** It was red and blue? **Hydro:** No it was red and black. Like it was basically - the skin was red and then there was black. **DrX:** Creepypasta colors, basically? **Hydro:** Yeah, yeah. It was weird, but it was because it couldn’t fully de-scramble the channel so it couldn't quite come in all the way. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **Hydro:** And yeah, basically that was good enough for me. And then once I got internet, I don't even remember how I even like got on to it, but I just somehow stumbled upon like different.... You know, like once Dead or Alive 2 came out like in ‘99... I think Dead or Alive 2 was definitely a big one for a starting point, just because that was very much like a fan service kind of game. And it was just a lot of fun just to find all that stuff online. And then I just kind of branched out from there. I just started looking more and more, finding like Disney characters and all kinds of stuff. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* Yeah, fictional pornography is just really cool in general. Yeah, I much prefer it to non-fictional pornography. One part of the appeal of fictional porn is that you can actually draw and you can create absolutely anything you want and you get to explore a lot of sort of unrealistic types of sexuality, I guess. Stuff you can't really depict in the realistic media. But also, fictional porn is always abuse free, right? **DrX:** Yep. **Supeku:** Like there's a lot of I mean, sort of even stuff you'd find like on Pornhub or Xhamster or whatever, like there's so much actual abuse involved in the production of even like really popular videos. Whereas with fictional stuff, you know it's clean. So there's no fear around that. **DrX:** Plus, like with fictional porn, there's characters, and that's a big draw for me. On Pornhub, there's not really characters. **Supeku:** Yeah, good point. **Hydro:** Yeah. **DrX:** It's just like kind of random people that I don't know who they are. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* **DrX:** And that's why when I do look at like stuff on Pornhub or whatever, I'm mostly drawn to cosplay stuff because at least then they’re trying to mimic a character in some way. But yeah, like, like a character is a big draw for me because like, it has like a pre-established story, like you know, the character’s story and can try imagining them having sex. It's fun. **Supeku:** It's really interesting how much of sexuality is not actually the copulation itself, right? But sort of also a very rational interpretation of all the sex acts, right? And what that means to you. So, like, when you have a character... You know, when you have a kind of story around the character that makes pornography or sex into a very a rational act. It’s not just the fact of seeing sex, but it's the fact of what conclusions you draw from, you know, seeing this whole story and how, you know, you find that in a more broad scale erotic. I think that's really fascinating. So do you guys like... DrX, do you prefer the sort of... Not foreplay, but... **DrX:** Like buildup. **Supeku:** Yeah, build ups of the sex. What about you Hydro, do you like the actual act of sex? or the stuff that goes around it more, do you think? **Hydro:** I think both, honestly. **DrX:** I like both as well. I can get off to just like seeing a penis going into a vagina or asshole. But however, it is much more, much more, much more interesting if there's some kind of story or context. And that's usually what I try to go for. So either some kind of character or some kind of story, that's what I most enjoy. **Supeku:** Right, yeah. **DrX:** With Hydro, with our games, we have tons of buildup, so we definitely enjoy that. Like, it's not just like, you know, you start the game and the characters are fucking for no reason or something. So, we like having a reason for it to happen. **Hydro:** Yeah. And even in my comics I work with Highware - Degen Comics - I still like to have... Well like pokemon's a great example. I don’t know if you’ve read that comic yet, Supeku, Spoils of Victory? That's a Pokémon one that I think you would love to read. But basically the whole scenario of setting it up is what makes it more fun. Because, you know, if it just started off as just a loli and a shota just fucking randomly - it’d be fun, and I'd still like it, but I think it's more fun when you give the context of it. It starts off just like a regular, like Pokémon Battle would, the shota trainer is facing off against the loli trainers - it's just a Pokemon battle. But then all of a sudden it turns into a very lewd NSFW thing and it just gets a lot more fun. That excites me a lot more than just going straight into it. **Supeku:** \*laugh\* It’s interesting, isn’t it? It's interesting how much of sexuality exists outside the fact of having sex itself. Yeah, I guess I’m not that fussed about one night stands. Like when I’ve had one night stands in the past, I just enjoy it significantly less compared to when I actually know a person. And it just ties in again with this thing with attraction and sort of sexual excitement. It's just a strange mix of this sort of rational, imaginative and irrational processes, you know. Yeah. I just find it really fascinating. **DrX:** Yeah, this has been a really fascinating talk. Yea, I’ve loved it so far. So you have a Baraag and a Pixiv, is that right? **Supeku:** I do have a Pixiv, but I don't particularly use it. I’m mostly on Baraag, yeah. **DrX:** What's your username on Baraag? **Supeku:** It’s Supeku. S-u-p-e-k-u. **DrX:** Supeku on Baraag. There’s lots of very great loli pics on your Baraag and I can tell you’re improving and experimenting and that's really cool. It's really interesting. **Hydro:** Yeah. **DrX:** You experiment with different painting styles and drawing styles. So it's really cool to see your evolution. And I think you're already a talented artist. So that's really cool that you've only started like last year and you're already this far and it seems like you’re going to keep going. **Supeku:** Thank you, yeah, that means a lot. **DrX:** Yeah. So everyone go check out his page and see his great art. He's got lots of good stuff there. **Hydro:** Yeah, and see his progress. **Supeku:** Yeah, thanks guys. **DrX:** Yeah it was great having you. **Supeku:** Thanks for listening. **Hydro:** Because I think it's going to be fascinating to see your progress over the, you know, the next year and you know, the future too. It's going to be fascinating to look at. **Supeku:** Yeah, thanks. I've got some sort of larger projects lined up for the future and I'll hopefully start working on them in the next year. **DrX:** Awesome. And we'd be happy to plug those projects, if you’d like, in the future, once you get started. **Supeku:** Sounds good. Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, like again, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed this. **DrX:** Yeah, us too. And thank you for being on. **Supeku:** Cheers. Supeku Links ============ [Baraag](https://baraag.net/@supeku) [Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/users/100372405)